Monday, April 16, 2007

What a crazy world we live in...

At least 22 dead in Va. Tech shooting rampage

Wow, I was going through my RSS feeds before going to bed as usual when I saw this news headline. It is a sad day for all, and my heart goes to the families and loved ones of those students.

What pisses me off is that as many universities, VA Tech probably doesn't allow students to have firearms on campus including their dormitories. Which implies students are defenseless. People have firearms to defend themselves against ass-hats with firearms. The number of causalities could have been a lot less if students had means of self defense.

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At Wednesday, April 18, 2007 at 12:36:00 PM EDT , Blogger PM said...

I couldn't disagree more -- and since I teach on a uni campus I am grateful that the authorities have more sense than you and students who think like you.

Salaam Alaikum,

At Wednesday, April 18, 2007 at 10:15:00 PM EDT , Anonymous Loki said...

I am going to strongly, STRONGLY disagree with you here, zoal - I too believe the US needs more, stricter gun controls, not less. I know also this is one of those arguments where neither side is likely to ever sway the other; I certainly can not imagine a pro-gun argument which would convince me. RIP Victoria Tech victims. :(

At Thursday, April 19, 2007 at 12:49:00 AM EDT , Blogger The Zoal said...

Dear Loki and PM,

I am sorry that it came to this, but in order to simplify my view gun control, I would appreciate it if you take a minute of your precious time and watch this short "documentary".

Why they will never take our guns!

At Thursday, April 19, 2007 at 1:02:00 AM EDT , Anonymous Wyatt said...

Ok, first I'm going to say that I totally agree with Zoal. I am from Utah which is the only state (I think)to allow holders of a concealed weapons permit to carry a handgun on any public school's property. I felt much safer knowing that in high school teachers could be carrying and that a Columbine II was not likely to take place where I was at because of that. During college, I regularly carried a handgun to classes, mostly because it was legal for me to do so, rather than out of paranoia, but I'm sure when the lead was flying at VT, some of the students or teachers would have gladly given up their left nut for a handgun of their own just for that ONE moment. Lives COULD have been saved. I'm not saying they would have, but a chance of saving a life is better than a guarantee of death.
Now, the question I ask the people who posted above you: What would stricter gun control have done in this situation? Unless we outlaw guns completely, which lets be honest, will NOT happen in the US, people will always be able to buy guns. The kid in Virginia was completely legit. He would have probably been able to legally purchase a firearm no matter what kind of gun control laws were in place.
There is no point making more laws when there are already plenty out there that can't be enforced. Its already illegal to murder someone.

At Thursday, April 19, 2007 at 2:05:00 AM EDT , Anonymous Frenchie said...

>>Unless we outlaw guns completely, which lets be honest, will NOT happen in the US

I think that's the point, surely the US have gone too far in the "pro-gun" field to be able to switch back. I am also like Loki, I still haven't found one convincing argument for more guns (on campus or not). What strikes me is this feeling of safety some of you are calling for. Well, in manyother countries (like mine but not only), I don't think we feel unsafe, just because we're not allowed to carry guns. This will never prevent a psycho to get one, and go rampage on a campus. But we just don't feel unsafe, and at least we don't see guns as a way to be safer. Actually it would even freak me out, if i knew that every other person around me has a gun. Everyone has is own kind of paranoia, innit?
Lives could have been saved... yeah, possibly. And lots of potential incidents added.

At Thursday, April 19, 2007 at 3:38:00 AM EDT , Anonymous Loki said...

Zoal, I find it really disappointing that you felt the need to resort to presenting some simplistic, unrealistic cartoon as representative of your argument. :/

Frenchie, I think you might be right - the US has gone so far down the track of "give every man, woman and psycho a gun" that it will be extremely difficult to retract these rules, and alter this perception/behaviour. Very sad.

As I said earlier - gun control is such a contentious issue that neither side is likely to conceed. For me, it's at the stage where I just agree to disagree with the American friends I do have. I have no interest/ drive to "convert" anyone, although I am always interested to read reasoned debate.... but not necessarily to participate.

Cheers, all.

At Thursday, April 19, 2007 at 3:43:00 AM EDT , Anonymous Loki said...

Just an addition to my previous comment - I should have said, my pro-gun American friends... I am aware that not all Americans side with the gun lobby.

At Thursday, April 19, 2007 at 6:03:00 AM EDT , Blogger The Zoal said...

Glad to see Frenchie on the zoalsphere, and I appreciate all the input from Loki, Wyatt and the French man.

Loki, when I said simplifying, I really meant simplifying. It is a cartoon.

Just as I mentioned on PM's blog, guns are just like any tool for self defense.

Two people can go into a Karate class and a few years later get out with a black belt and a "kick your ass" degree. One can use his skill to defend himself and his family, and the other can use the same skills to rape, mug and hurt others. It all comes down to Personal responsibility.

Keeping guns away from bad people won't make them any better, they will find other "illegal" ways of getting guns, and the good people won't have any.

At Thursday, April 19, 2007 at 9:25:00 AM EDT , Anonymous Loki said...

I still strongly disagree. Your average psychopathic idiot might not invest years in learning karate, sure, but they are much more likely to invest the $500 and 15min it takes to buy a gun (noted costs and time purely illustrative, of course...).

As I said before - it's highly unlikely either of us are going to change our minds on this one. I'm going to bow out of this argument now. Cheers!

At Thursday, April 19, 2007 at 1:32:00 PM EDT , Blogger The Zoal said...

Loki, even if we disagree on this, you're still my favorite Yerbouti!


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